If the fallen angels are imprisoned in Tartarus until Judgement, who are the demons? And why is Satan at large?
Question:
Hi Sumair:
I really liked your slideshow (click here to visit post) outlining a biblical view of Heaven and Hell. I have one question, though. If the fallen angels are imprisoned in Tartarus until Judgement, who are the demons, and why is Lucifer (Satan) at large? I had always understood the fallen angels to be the demons, but if they are in Tartarus, how can this be so?
Thanks,
Christina
Answer:
Hi Christina,
Thank you for visiting TiS and asking such an insightful question. Often, we tend to do a cursory scan of a given topic and don’t appreciate the nuances or implications of our learning. Your question is one that probes into this topic of demonology, which is an area that has varied views due to the lack of clarity and content on these entities especially in the Old Testament (terminology, historical developments, and theoretical issues). However, there are some insights we can glean from Scripture which will allow us to address some of the themes brought to surface from your inquiry.
Firstly, the fallen angels referenced in 2 Peter 2:4 are not the demons that roam about today - as you correctly pointed out this would be contrary to the fact they are presently chained in darkness. Some scholars posit that the fallen angels are the “sons of God” (Genesis 6) who had relations with human women (corroborated by Jude 6). As we establish our terminology, one must note that “fallen angels” can loosely be called “demons” (the devil’s angels mentioned in Matthew 25:41) as “angel” merely means “messenger”.
While these demons/fallen angels, who left their appointed dwelling to violate God’s creation order by intermingling with humanity (Genesis 6:2-4), are currently confined (2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6), other demons were free during the lifetime of Christ (Luke 8:31, Mark 3:22, John 8:48-49, Luke 4:34) and are free to roam about today. However, eventually all demons will be cast with Satan into the eternal fire (Matthew 25:41). With this foundation set, we can now directly address your 2 questions:
“If the fallen angels are imprisoned in Tartarus until Judgement, who are the demons?“
According to intertestamental writings such as 1 Enoch, we can understand the contemporary Jewish mindset that the Nephilim, offspring of human women and the “sons of God” (Genesis 6:4), may be the present day demons. “The bodies of the monstrous offspring of these unions, according to the theory, were destroyed in the Flood and their disembodied spirits became demons.” This would be an interesting turn of events as the Nephilim would have an ancestry that was partly angelic (“sons of God”) and partly human - perhaps their ability to possess humans and shift from purely spiritual to the physical possession of a human is a hereditary desire and compatibility (this is only my conjecture).
If demons are not the Nephilim spoken of in Genesis 6, then they may be members of a different hierarchy of heavenly beings who rebelled with Satan against God. Ephesians 6:12 presents this multi-level organizational structure among the heavenly beings who are associated with the powers of darkness.
“why is Lucifer (Satan) at large?“
As outlined above, Satan is clearly not one of the beings chained in darkness. Satan is definitely free to roam (Job 1:7; 2:1). Jesus even goes so far as to say Satan is the “prince” or “ruler” of this world (Ephesians 2:2) and Paul describes him as the “god of this age” (2 Corinthians 4:4). As we read Peter’s warning in 1 Peter 5:8, we understand the reality that Satan is endowed with the liberty to roam the planet as a finite spiritual being but to what end? The answer harkens us back to the story of Job where we see God’s sovereignty over all, inclusive of Satan, as God permits Satan to test the faith of Job (this should aid in our understanding of a function of Satan in the present day). Even though Satan does roam free, it must be clear that even Satan bows to God’s will and must obey (Job 1:12). Please note that Satan is not an equal adversary of God (as some people often present the relationship between Satan and God as a sort of spiritual tug of war) since no created being can ever be an adversary to an omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent God.
Although Satan stands as our accuser (Revelation 12:10) and is continually working with his fellow rebellious angels (demons) (Job 1:6-7), we know that his arrogance (Isaiah 14:13-14) is in vain as he is limited by God’s will - that is Satan is restrained by God and used by God for His perfect purpose and will (Psalm 18:30). However, in the fullness of God’s timing (Isaiah 14:24), the day will come when Satan will reach his final destination in the lake of fire and sulphur (Revelation 20:10). Although we may not fully understand all that God allows Satan to do in the present day, we must maintain an accurate view of ourselves and God’s ways (Isaiah 40:28; 55:8-9), and a sincere appreciation for His will (Romans 8:28).
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Hi. I would just like to add something that might clear things up more for you Christina. Fallen Angels and demons are two entirely different things. Demons are Satan’s foot soldiers. They are the ones who try to inhabit our bodies (or possess us). As demons have no physical forms, they can not reveal themselves to us physically, so we can never see them. They are the ones sent by Satan to try and make our lives miserable. Fallen Angels on the other hand have a permanent form, so they can reveal themselves to us and we can see them. Please note that these angels will always appear soiled or deteriorated. Fallen Angels are engaged in a spiritual warfare with the Angels of God.
Us, as human beings can drive out demons without even walking a perfect relationship with God. In fact, we can drive out demons by simply making a choice not to do a certain sin anymore - that’s how much power we have over them. Fallen Angels on the other hand are far stronger than demons.
One last big difference between them is that demons will roam around on the other seeking people that they can inhabit. When they are driven out, they will simply move on and seek the next person. Fallen Angels are territorial. So they will stay in a city/town for months, years, decades or even centuries until the spiritual hold of Satan is broken there.
Hope this makes things more clear.
Fallen Angels are territorial. So they will stay in a city/town for months, years, decades or even centuries until the spiritual hold of Satan is broken there. I thought they were in Tartarus? Also if the angels are in constant battle with demons what makes their life any different to ours if they are constantly at war sounds like earth. We are constantly at war, so if we go to heaven we just fight another war? And why can satan travel back and forth from heaven to earth when we have to follow commandments and rules and laws, and he’s satan the epitome of evil, and he just strolls in how’s your day GOD. I thought he was cast out of there anyway.
@Joey
Very interesting post and sorry I’m finding it so very late, but I would love to continue researching this. You’re making absolute statements and seem to speak with authority on the subject. If your words are to be accepted as anything more than just something you made up in your head, you really need to site some sources for your conclusions, perhaps scriptural. Looking forward to it.
Remember many of these things are in the bible some are literal some alliteral but all are there. Many people are too intellectually lazy or worse spiritually to open the bible and read it for themselves. Fallen angels were not all imprisoned and even the many that were were done so in chains of darkness this is why you see them in black smoke and as shadow men on various shows. I have had them appear as 5 foot tall see through sort of shadows with brilliant silver outlines. If you are fighting the good fight you WILL be attacked and tested by these vile beings but the simple words of Jesus Christ will always send them running. God bless you all!
The “missing link” in comprehending this matter is understanding that all the devil and his angels will be born as men. They will be incarnated as men. Ever since the fall of Adam and Eve, God has been forcing the devil and his angels to be born as men. Cain was of that wicked one. Being a “Nephilim” does not require copulation between a fallen angel and a woman. It merely requires a fallen man and woman (Adam and Eve) who are in fallen flesh with a sinful nature to have offspring. That offspring will either be elect or reprobate. Abel was elect. Cain was reprobate. Cain was of that wicked one. Cain was sown by Satan.
All who are on the left of Jesus on Judgment Day are the full population of ht devil and his angels incarnate having been born as men in human flesh appearing.
Those who are devils/demons -- “free to roam” -- are those who have not yet been born as men -- incarnated into human flesh at conception.
Those who are on earth as devils -- like Cain, like Esau, like Judas -- like all the sons of perdition and reprobate.. alive at this time are a different level.
Those who have already lived as men, and died, are bound in chains in Tartarus as the result of having been made men and dying according to the flesh. It is given to a man once to die and then the Judgment.
Satan, until the conception of the 666 beast, was “free to roam”. It is my position that he has been incarnated and Satan is among as a man today.
Satan is still functioning at a “spiritual level” as the prince of the power of the air. At the abomination of desolations, he will be cast to earth and manifest and be “revealed” as the Wicked One who is the 666 beast. The “days of Noah” will return.
At the marriage supper of the Lamb, all of the remaining reprobate devil and his angels will be killed, with the exception of the 666 beast and the false prophet. They will be cast alive into the lake of fire. With the body of the 666 beast, who is Satan incarnate, cast alive into the lake of fire -- Satan is thus bound in human flesh and is cast into the abyss. Because then all the devil and his angels have been born as men -- all are dead -- the 666 beast and the false prophet are cast alive into the lake of fire -- all the population of the devil and his angels are thus chained in Tartarus -- in hell -- the abyss.
In this manner, the spirit of the devil is no longer “free to roam” on earth. No devil is “free to roam” on earth. The spirit of the devil is thus removed from earth by all the devils incarnated as men being bound as men (thus as devils who became men) in hell. For it is given to a man once to die and then the Judgment.
To understand that all of the reprobate on the left of Jesus on Judgment Day are literally the SOLE POPULATION of the devil and his angels become men incarnate -- and all those on the right of Jesus were the elect breathed into Adam on the day of Adam’s creation -- is to understand the larger picture of election and reprobation.
All who go to hell as men at the end of the age of the Gentiles when Satan is cast into the abyss -- came from hell and pre-existed before of old ordained to condemnation as wandering stars.. the fallen angels who left their first estate.
God is not mocked. The curse of Lucifer is to be born as a man with all the devils -- to go to hell -- to be covered with worms for the 1000 years that will not die as mere mortal men -- then to be raised from the dead after the 1000 years to come to Final Armageddon to be Judged with finality.
Satan is on this earth right now, again, because he is in a human body. But the day swift approaches that his body, the body of the 666 beast, will be cast alive into the lake of fire, Satan will thus be chained and cast into the abyss -- and there will be no human agency on earth for Satan. The fall of Adam in the Garden will have “processed through” in God’s plan -- and only God’s elect in entire sanctification will be on earth for the 1000 years. (Then Final Armageddon, etc. ensues.)
I wanted to give my answer for it’s insights.
God bless.
Hi Laura and a few others who have posted comments related to this post. Firstly, thank you for taking the time to visit, read, and comment on this topic. Secondly and vastly most importantly, I would ask that when making claims or statements it is critical that we ensure we are not establishing our personal views and expounding theories based on speculation or conjecture. We must adhere to Scripture and its basis as Truth. Personally, I take great care and attempt to clarify my opinion on matters not defined 100% clearly in Scripture or if there is a doubt I hold on speaking and/or state it is mere opinion/speculation/conjecture.
There are a few comments above that I do not see any basis for Scriptural support and as such would like to encourage proof be provided and if not then make clear for any future visitors that they should take views and measure them against the authority of the Scripture.
For all those posting above expressing views on this matter, please know I respectfully must disagree and call out the fact these are false statements.
Zhymira - Thank you for asking for the same measure of certainty and Scriptural support
Sumaira,
I am stating scripture, not personal opinion. I am making a case line upon line and precept upon precept. We can see from scripture that we are saved by grace. Yet, it takes an indepth study to see soteriology in depth. For example, all saints can agree “we are saved by grace through faith”. Yet, some saints say, “We are saved as an act of human decision” whereas other saints state that “we are saved by God’s Sovereign choice and power in election”.
Thus conclusions are derived from scripture. As I see it, the conclusion of the person who states we are saved by human will rather than God’s Sovereign election lacks a more complete view of scripture.
I have full doctrinal support for my position.
I think it important to clearly answer the charge that I am merely pulling things out of my hat.
It is Jesus who declared that Judas was a devil. It is Jesus who commands those on His left on Judgment Day into the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Jud refers to the reprobate as men before of old ordained to condemnation - and calls them wandering stars. Revelation of God’s Word, to those who have not received shared illumination, granted will sound like “conjecture” -- because it is not shared vision. So, how would another explain how someone sees something they have no force of power within to see in clarity line upon line and precept upon precept??
So, it is definitely a matter in which the Holy Spirit Himself must convince us each and all of the things of God’s Word.
However, it would be conjecture indeed to suppose that man was merely a dust creature in creation. Adam was not a dust creature in creation. God breathed into Adam and Adam became a living soul. Adam was a son of God. Luke 3:38.
God did not create some men with the foreknowledge, predestination to end up in hell in unbelief -- while creating other men with foreknowledge, predestination to be saved for “no reason”. There is an underlying cause why some men are saved and others are not.
The answer is in who they really are. As a woman who has studied the Bible wearing out binders of Bibles for 40 years -- I am quite a serious Bible student not relying on “conjecture” rather than illumination of God’s Word line upon line precept upon precept.
(It was rather simple decades ago to see the 5 points of Calvinism. It took a bit longer to see more.)
So, I would appreciate not attributing my systematic theology to “conjecture” through inability to share the same understanding at this time.
These matters are left to the Holy Spirit in His convincing power.
I state what I see. Others see what they see. But I see what I see through over 40 years of serious Bible study -- not watching tv and coming up with “ideas”.
(and you seemed to “make me sound like that”. lol)
God bless!!
Laura,
I appreciate you taking the time to clarify your position and again I do not intend to imply where you derive your “ideas” from or suggest you obtain them from “TV” as you mention. In fact, I don’t wish to speculate as to the source of your ideas. However, I do have a few thoughts to share in response:
1) Your example of the clarity and detail around salvation and the form of the process faith to derive salvation vs. the more specific predesitination articulated by Calvin and many others is indeed one in the same only to a more detailed stance - so I agree on the example as both being truthful - but please note it is based on Scripture and very clearly can be backed by Scripture to understand predestination (E.g the elect are predestined to be His chosen (Eph 1:5), book of Romans, Father drawing them to His Son (John 6:44), man being spiritually dead and cannot choose to be alive (Eph. 2:1), by nature we are God haters thus can’t choose God (Romans 1:30), etc.).
Ironically, you propose a statement based on speculation related to the example of salvation and predestination you provided when you stated “God did not create some men with the foreknowledge, predestination to end up in hell in unbelief -- while creating other men with foreknowledge, predestination to be saved for “no reason”.” Why is there “no reason”? Where does this idea come from? Scripture clearly states things are beyond our comprehension to fully understand and we need to let man be man and God be God (Isaiah 55:9).
Furthermore, I would encourage a reading of the following passages: Romans 8:28, 9:11, 2 Timothy 1:9, Ephesians 1:4-6,11 and you will see there are purposes/reasons for His election that are scripturally based not on speculation of spiritual previous lives or forms. You state there must be some reason some are saved and some are not - and that is about who “they really are”… I would recommend reviewing Scripture and Calvin’s teachings as you seem to be somewhat familiar with them and see the clarity brought out in the fact that salvation has NOTHING to do with who we are or they are but all to do with His grace and His sovereignty.
2) On another note, Calvin himself refused to write a commentary on the book of Revelation and stated Scripture should be clearly understood or plain in meaning and he refrained from venturing beyond the limits man has in our understanding of all things spiritiual so this is a consideration to be sober in our approach of His Word and extracting meaning accurately (exegesis) or as some do insisting their meaning into the Word (eisegesis).
2) You make a tremendous amount of statements yet I don’t see any Scripture quoted and explained in context. Some statements that you may wish to provide exegetical backing for are provided below. In my posts, I try most often to state Scripture so I am holding the same standard or at least sincerely attempting to where/when possible.
Shared in sincerity and Truth,
- Sumair
Statements made that require backing of Scripture and contextual explanation:
“all the devil and his angels will be born as men. They will be incarnated as men.”
“God has been forcing the devil and his angels to be born as men.”
“Cain was of that wicked one.”
“Being a “Nephilim” does not require copulation between a fallen angel and a woman.”
“merely requires a fallen man and woman”
“the left of Jesus on Judgment Day are the full population of ht devil and his angels”
“those who have not yet been born as men -- incarnated into human flesh at conception.”
“on earth as devils”
“who have already lived as men, and died, are bound in chains in Tartarus”
“my position that he has been incarnated and Satan is among as a man today.”
“With the body of the 666 beast, who is Satan incarnate, cast alive into the lake of fire -- Satan is thus bound in human flesh and is cast into the abyss.”
“All who go to hell as men at the end of the age of the Gentiles when Satan is cast into the abyss -- came from hell and pre-existed before of old ordained to condemnation as wandering stars.”
“The curse of Lucifer is to be born as a man with all the devils”
“Satan is on this earth right now, again, because he is in a human body.”